Grassley Six
I wonder why Senator Charles Grassley (R-Iowa) is asking for financial records from a targeted group of Ministries beyond the scope of what is requested by the IRS. In Washington DC Grassley, a member of the Senate Finance Committee is investigating what has become known as the Grassley Six:
Kenneth and Gloria Copeland, Benny Hinn, Creflo and Taffi Dollar, Bishop Eddie Long, Joyce and David Meyer, and Randy and Paula White.
I would get the picture if the Democratic Party controlled Committee was pushing for the investigation because the (nearly) Godless Left does not appreciate strong Biblical value minded Christians to be an influence in politics.
Do notice I said Christians, apparently it is politically correct for Mohammedan’s to spout politics and retain their 501(c)3 non-profit donation status.
Anyway Senator Grassley definitely is a Slanted Right Conservative; therefore I have to believe he has acquired some information on the Grassley Six. The information must not be the smoking gun that has convinced Grassley to investigate financial abuse of these Ministries. I did see an MSM piece on Benny Hinn photo-documenting a lavish lifestyle which the MSM piece was financed by Hinn’s 501(c)3 Ministry. I do recall the network that did the piece rudely harassed Hinn in public because Hinn would never agree to an interview. The program would show public questioning Hinn and trap him into answers that there was no way Hinn was prepared to answer. Hinn would give off the top his mind answers and if it did not jive with documented information the program already had, a clip would follow with facts and figures staining Hinn’s reputation.
I do understand the motivation behind the Slanted Left MSM. These six Ministers that have gained the appellation of the Grassley Six are all Ministers that do way more than preach prosperity. These are Faith people who believe in Divine Healing and Divine Intervention via the Biblical Gifts of the Spirit. This is a practice that many Christians antagonistic to this literal form of Faith have labeled heresy. What better way to put a dent into faith then to show these Ministers as liars or living the high life on non-profit tax deductable donations.
I must give Grassley credit though. If the Grassley six are living lavishly on Ministry funds rather than the salary from the Ministry coupled with investments, then there is a taint on the image of Christ. That would invalidate that whole teaching of faith, healing, miracles and prosperity to many who have followed this movement for years.
Can you tell I am one of those followers? The Bible is the Bible and it is true rather or not a few Ministers treated their charitable donations as their personal funds. I still believe in the power of God for all the Faith movement teachings because it is taken directly from the Bible; however I do believe some have become too engulfed in materialism and comfort rather than setting an example of Kingdom of God living that Jesus preached.
I pray Grassley’s investigation exonerates the Grassley Six of any wrong doing. Would that not slap the accusers on the Left? If or there is any wrong doing revealed I pray it is in ethics not in the rule of law. That way many good men and women of God can reassess what is personal money or what is Ministry money and still be a benefit for the Kingdom of God.
Now one thing that is a pet peeve of mine is this ludicrous infringement the government has made for Christian Ministries to be a Godly influence in elections. If a Ministry is discerned to be making public endorsements of candidates the IRS will swoop down and remove their 501(c)3 status. Thus it is a hinky way allowing free speech yet punishing the life blood of a Ministries existence.
I don’t know how Kenneth Copeland swung it be he had Mike Huckabee on his weekly show. I did not have the chance to watch the TV programming; however I intend to catch it on the Internet. Copeland’s Believer’s Voice of Victory broadcasts can be seen at the Kenneth Copeland Website. The cool thing I liked about Baptist Minister and Presidential Candidate Huckabee is that he is taking a public stand with the Copelands as Grassley’s investigation proceeds. This is interesting for Baptists and Pentecostal/Charismatic Christian do not see eye to eye on many theological issues. That means Huckabee is willing to take a political hit while his poll numbers are actually rising. I have heard some bad things about Huckabee ethics wise when he was Governor of Arkansas; however it takes a man to stand tall when a friend is under a Senate investigation.
I will close with this thought. It is wrong to impose Freedom of Speech restriction on Christian Ministries under the delusion that the Constitution’s First Amendment proclaims there is a separation of Church and State. There is NO SUCH LANGUAGE in the First Amendment.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Notice the First Amendment says that Congress will make no law respecting an establishment of a religion (i.e. No State Church) or the prohibiting the free exercise thereof (i.e. the Federal Government cannot prohibit the free exercise of religion). The Federal Government is prohibiting the free exercise of religion when the IRS is used as a tool to keep various Christian denominations from taking political stands.
The whole so-called “Separation of Church and State” concept comes from a letter delivered by President Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Church using that phrase.
HELLO the letter is not part of the Constitution of the United States of America.
Comments
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Only those who are Born Again will be saved form God's wrath and eternal torment in hell.
Secondly the Bible clearly states that we are to consider all things by the Word of God so that we know how the Man of God should conduct himself.And the word of God says in 2 Timothy 2:15: Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
And the word of truth is what we are to use to conduct our lifes.And if one studies God word they will find In 2nd Timothy 3:16-17:
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Gods word is profitable for many wonderful things and here in particular 4 Things. 1-For doctrine 2-For reproof 3-For correction 4-For instruction in righteousness
And these 4 Things are provided by God to us for a reason because without sound doctrine,without reproof,without correction and without instruction in rightousness
Then v:17 would not be correct which says:
17: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
So when some suggest that someone is judging by agreeing with what Senator Grassley is bringing out in the open about these Pastors lifestyles.It has been reported in the US press that some of these 6 ministries Pastors under public scrunity that they fly in Cessana Jets,drive Rolls Royces and Bentley Convertables,live in Mansions worth from 2 Million Dollars up to 10 Million Dollars,stay in Presidentalial Suites for a sum of one Thousand Dollars up to Ten Thousand Dollars a night.One of these 6 Pastors when asked on CNN IF THEY BELIEVED JESUS WOULD AGREE TO THEM HAVING A ROLLS ROYCE? HE SAID "YES Jesus would agree"
So when we look at what is taking place with Senator Grassley,s requested inquiry on ministries such as Benny Hinn,Keneth Copeland,Crefflo Dollar Joyce Myers and others and in light of the scandal at Oral Roberts University where as even the President Richard Roberts resigned on Friday after his accountant informed the world that he was instructed to "cook the books" by Richard Roberts himself and the accountant was Fired.
And when you take into account that these 6 ministries teach false teachings that I Quote.."We are all little gods" and that we have the power to create through our words,and the Properity Gospel.Perhaps one is being judgemental if you think that Doctrine Reproof,Correction and Instruction in Rightousness is not an appropiate measure to be guided by not only in these 6 Pastors ministries but in any Christian ministries.And let me ask have you really dug into what The Word of Faith Movement teaches?I suggest that any one reading this finds out and become aware of what these ministries teach.The choice is yours.
It's about time that MEN OF GOD STAND UP and speak the word of truth in love and through Gods Word find Doctrine and Reproof false teachers and bring Correction so that people are not mislead and bring Instruction in righteousness so that people wiil be aware of what is happening.
I am an ordained Pentecostal minister in Regent Park -St. Jamestown Toronto.And I have a duty as a watchman of the church God has called me to lead.Here are some scriptures to that warn us of the very things we are talking about.
2nd.Peter 2:1-3 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2: And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3: And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
1 Timothy 4:1: Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1rst Timothy 6:3-11 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4: He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5: Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
6: But godliness with contentment is great gain.
7: For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
8: And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
9: But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
10: For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
11: But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
1rst Peter 5:2: Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
3: Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.
If anyone would like to discuss what My views are on any of the above statements or on the bible in general,please feel free to respond to this email... Pastor Mike Grady info@mgrady.net
I am with you Pastor except for the "false doctrine" part. I believe the prosperity teaching does emphasize materialism way too much. For one thing a human being simply cannot handle immense wealth as a good steward of God. I believe the parable of the Talents brings this out. God prospers Christians according to their ability, the only requisite is to do something instead of nothing.
Prosperity Teachers impart guilt if every Christian does not sell out to strive for maximum material wealth. The fact is not every Christian can faithfully manage immense material wealth and live godly.
On the other hand most of the Grassley six are no more false teachers than a Baptist who does not believe in glossolalia or current miracles because the days of the Apostle has past.
Those who agree with your definition of Christianity are Christians; however some may consider you heretical because you might believe homosexuality is a sin or don't believe in Holy Spirit Baptism or some Healing.
The only thing that is for sure is we will be known as He is known when the Lord Returns to collect His own.
On The Grassley 6
On The Grassley 6
In Canada the whole issue brought forth by the GRassley 6, which is one of integrity and not creating the appearance of evil, has basically not been taken. I wonder if the very Secular Canadian Media will only pay attention when and if, one-or-more are sent to prison.
Personally, I too want to believe their innocents. Yet, my research has brought up some very scary teaching in their movement. There is definitly an apperance of evil. That does not take a special investigator to determine and I do realize the over all complexity of the situation.
However, in my mind, maybe not yours, I can not help but think about THE USA's overwhelming response to the evil done by a Muslim monster who hijacked planes and crashed them killing innocent people on September 11. I remember that day, as all who were around to watch it on CNN would.
Personally, I have come to believe that these Grassley 6 have done something remarkable in our time. Just like I think Bin Laden did something remarkly evil in our time. The Grassley 6 like Bin Laden have managed to hijack the faith of their chosing to meet personal gains and ends.
In Canada we have the MelinChucks (spelling may be wrong for the name so forgive me) who have done the same thing. I as a pastor, have watched the results of these prosperity gospel mongrols and their followers. Perhaps, you have too, they worship them, not even wanting to question them. The reason, fear!
They fear them because they claim to be the LORDS ANNOINTED! I remember one day not many months ago, I was on a TTC bus in TORONTO, and was talking to a friend of mine about the very issues we are discussing here. Muslim, Hindu, who knows what else in a position to hear.
I made a blatant comment about Mohummed being evil and a false prophet. The Muslims which out numbered me, said nothing and ignored it. Yet, when I made a comment of concern about the Benni Hinn Ministry to my friend, a Hinn worshiper verbally assulted me. Telling me that by attacking Benni Hinn I would bring the very rath of GOD down onto me.
After about a minute or two of her "do not tuch the LORDS ANNOINTED" poorly understood theology, my friend speaks up saying, "you know he's not attacking Benni Hinn only telling me what people are saying, he too is a pastors". That same woman shrank back perhaps the very thought of attacking another of the LRODS ANNOINTED (Me being a pastor) scared her silly.
She shrank back, and we continued on with our night. What this tells me is how much power the Grassley 6 have. I know another woman who has litterally destroyed her family, finances, all in the dream of being Joyce Meyers or the next Benni Hinn. Tell me how is this GOD?
I am honestly concerned about the overwhelming reality these Grassley 6 represent. A Christianity that is now above accountability and can no longer be challenged on the basis of being the "LORDS ANNOINTED". It means that people like Benni Hinn are as dangerous as that of Binn Laden. Thank GOD on high that the Grassley 6 are more benevolent that the alternative example given.
You may rightly ask me why? Well, the answer is plain to me...I would rather someone be out for my grandmothers well intended money than her life. NOt that I am suggesting that the Grassley 6 are innocent or guilty, that only time can tell. However, if they are guilty, their crime is far less evil than that of Mohammed's follwers.
The Grassley 6, need to play the humble card. You see the world is watching and many souls are following them. My advice to the '6' give Grassley your finances, make the changes that are required, admit any wrong he suggests and repent. Following this move on with your life and hopefully, your ministry will stand the test and trial before it. By the way, count it a pleasure that you've been counted worthy by GOD TO be corrected, rebuked, tested, and persecuted because GOD only punishes those he loves...and if GOD loves you BENNI, he will correct you, or did you forget that lesson from your bible college and theology training - wait many of the Grassley 6 admit to not being trained, so I would aslo suggest training, but not at ORAL ROBERTS UNIVERSITY!
Blessings, Pastor Joseph Vaillancourt
Toronto ONTARIO
You are certainly entitled to your opinion. Frankly the Faith teaching was very balanced until the focus was wealth rather than the Kingdom of God and doing Kingdom work.
You are right about who did the "Lord's Annointed" tirade. She was right that it is dangerous ground to touch the annointed but as you said, as a Pastor you also are the Lord's Annointed. She was on dangerous ground heaving verbal assaults at you.
Being among the Lord's Annointed - whether it is Priests, Pastors, Evangelists, or even in secular world as in Leadership; it definitely does not give them a pass to operate in sin. King Saul found out. High Priest Eli found out. Even Moses found out by not being allowed to cross over to the Promised Land.
It is like I heard in Spiderman (quit laughing): with great power comes great responsibility. The Bigger the dog in ministry the greater the accountability for wrong.
We'll see what happens.
My opinion that they have made themselves a danger to Christians is not just held by myself. I too, like the woman I mentioned once was trapped and ensnared by the Word of Faith teaching. Something in my spirit said, "be careful" and Galatians 1 reminds that if anyone preaches a different gospel he will be eternally condemned:
6I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
This is for me when the reformation became real. This was my moment when I realized that Kennith Copeland, Benni Hinn, and the Word of Faith movement was presenting a different gospel. I am not one to make statements without research and research I did...I went on to Benni Hinns website, and watched his teaching. I collected Kennith Copelands sermons.
You see it was easy to get, my church was in strong relationship with these two ministries. I grew up in my early walk listening to these teachers of the word of faith. Their teachings, I discouvered a-fresh and in a new light scared me...You see, I was also an Atheist, a Satanist, Pagan, davelled in the Ocult! They were telling me the same sort of ideas.
I am not saying they are Satanist or Pagans, but when Kopeland says that GOD lives on a planet not unlike ours, it reminds me of the New Age Movement.
Here are some quotes from Kennith Kopeland:
1. And the Lord said, ‘Because it was a sign of Satan that was hanging on the cross.’ He said, ‘I accepted, in My own spirit, spiritual death; and the light was turned off.’” (What Happened from the Cross to the Throne, 1990, audiotape #02-0017, side 2)
Since when is Jesus on the Cross a Satanic event that represents Satans powers? I don't ever read this in scripture...Paul never said this, nore did Peter or James, or any of the other Apostles, so where did he get it from?
2. “When Jesus cried, ‘It is finished!’ He was not speaking of the plan of redemption. There were still three days and nights to go through before He went to the throne. … Jesus’ death on the cross was only the beginning of the complete work of redemption.” (“Jesus—Our Lord of Glory,” Believer’s Voice of Victory, April 1982, p. 3)
Wow what an interesting interpretation of the Cross moment...Jesus told one of the theives that he would see him shortly in Heaven...Did Jesus go to Hell or Heaven first, or did he lie? Do you see the problem? What was wrong with the Cross of Calvary that it was not enough to redeem me from my wickedness, that Jesus had to be reborn in HELL? That I will show you in the next quote:
3.“[I]n hell He [Jesus] suffered for you and for me. The Bible says hell was made for Satan and his angles. It was not made for men. Satan was holding the Son of God there illegally … The trap was set for Satan and Jesus was the bait.” (Walking in the Realm of the Miraculous, 1979, p. 77)
Wait, isn't this what Jesus did on the CROSS? Why would Jesus need to go to HELL TO SUFFER A Second time?
4. He was literally being reborn before the devil’s very eyes. He began to flex His spiritual muscles … Jesus was born again—the first-born from the dead the Word calls Him—and He whipped the devil in his own backyard. He took everything he had away from him. He took his keys and his authority away from him.” (“The Price of it All,” Believer’s Voice of Victory, September 1991, p. 4)
If you are anything like me you are interrested in what the Historical Teachers taught. Did they hand this down over the last 2000 years? Where is this taught by Jesus, Paul, or any of the writters of the scripture? I could not find it. What I did find was this from 1 Cor 15.1-8 (supported by the Book of Romans):
1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Peter,[b] and then to the Twelve. 6After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born
1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Peter,[b] and then to the Twelve. 6After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born
First this says clearly three things happened:
1. Jesus died for our sins
2. Jesus was burred
3. On the third day he rose again
and that these three things were done in accordance to scripture. Where did it say anything about HELL. It did say that believing these three things was essential to having the gospel which is salvation. Also it mentions that it was this simple three step message that was passed down...no mention of JESUS NEEDING TO BE BORN AGAIN! How did Pastor Kopeland discouver such teaching? I do not know, I checked multiple tanslation of scripture and did my own translation work on it and no mention of Jesus being born again in HELL was found. I give him credit for his immagination as it makes for good story telling and would do well as a Holly Wood Movie plot.
Further Kopeland says:
5. “Don’t be disturbed when people put you down and speak harshly and roughly of you. They spoke that way of Me, should they not speak that way of you? The more you get to be like Me, the more they’re going to think that way of you. They crucified Me for claiming that I was God. But I didn’t claim I was God; I just claimed I walked with Him and that He was in Me. Hallelujah.” (“Take Time to Pray,” Believer’s Voice of, February 1987, p. 9)
Did you read what I read here? Is this word of Faith teacher saying Jesus told him that He never claimed to be GOD?
Kopeland says, "But I didn’t claim I was God" (taken from the previous quoatation). I felt scripture was clear on this point Jesus is the "logos" the word of GOD, GOD himself in the flesh. I thought that Jesus was "Immanuel - God with Us"
For a short look at what Scripture says about Jesus diety, look at
A. Matthew 28:19 - Jesus is shown as the second part of the trinity.
B. John 10:30 - Jesus is one with GOD
C. John 1:3 - Jesus is creator and 1 Corrinthians 8:6 reminds us that through Jesus all things come into existence.
D. Col 1.17 - Tells us that if Christ stops to exist the Universe seases to exist...so I guess he is more than a creation...He is GOD!
Tell me does what Kennith Copeland, or those he represent agree with Scripture...does not sound like it...I use Copeland as a case study.
------These sort of teaching are echoed by many if not all of the Word of Faith teachers. They deny the JEsus of scripture for one that would make the co-redeemers.
Benni HInn, tells us that we are all "little gods" this is agree with by Scientology, New Age, Paganism, Satanism, and the like but not by Historical Christianity found in the times of the Apostle Paul. Unless you want to completely burn the bible and deny its words, then you too may find it as easy as I did to break from their teaching.
This teacher deals in Ocult Practices such as talking to the dead (Necromancy).
First some scripture for our talking:
Moses stated, "There shall not be found among you [any one] that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, [or] that useth divination, [or] an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer." (Deuteronomy 18:10-11).
Well lest look at Pastor Benni and what he said,
Source: Mr. Hinn at the Blaisdale Arena, Honolulu, HI, on February 28, 1997
1. He claims to have spoken to ELIJAH
2. He had a conversation with Katherine Kulman (who has been dead for some time... Hear his words for yourself and decide yourself is this good or bad?
I’ve not just seen angels; I’ve seen saints. Can I tell you? This might even shock you a little more. The Lord gave me a vision of Kathryn Kuhlman sitting with what seemed to be a group of people . . . and every one of them seemed to be urging me to pray. Now, I know this sounds crazy, but it’s all right. I don’t mind crazy because I liked what I saw . . . I was in prayer at uh, least hours . . . At least fifty to seventy of them sitting in a group, and they were saying to me, ‘Pray! Ask God to give you a healing ministry that will touch the world! And suddenly, I heard Kathryn’s voice and suddenly there she was its crystal clear. And she in her beautiful smile, she said, ‘Ask! We’re waiting for you to ask! We’re praying with you to ask!’ And the vision disappeared. And suddenly I said, ‘Lord!’ And I asked. A week later the anointing hit my life. I believe the saints in Heaven urge us to pray. Urge us to do it!
He credits this with a double annointing and a healing ministry...weird stuff like thsi happened in Catholic Circles...Referances of this are seen in the province of Quebec - where apparent Mary Visits happen, perhaps similar to Mary of Fatima. If what Benni Hinn is saying happen is good then I might a well return to Catholicism and join the Mary Cult and worship her with Jesus.
Here is what he teaches on the trinty:
Once a long time ago, in Europe shortly after the fall of the Roman Empire to Barbarians and Pagans. Europe was surronded by Muslims to the South and Pagans to the North. It was a drastic time, the Catholic church was a shameful organization only after money. Charlamagne (sorry if I spelled it wrong) managed to becaome king of a country which pretty much ruled all of Western Europe and included the lands of France and Germany. History now calls this empire the HOly Roman Empire manly because the Benzatines were losing a war to the Muslims...but thats besides the point.
I decided at 8 pm Sunday, to mention what the Emporer of the HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE DID to greedy people who made money off of the gospel. AFter all he had the first and probably the only real attempt at Christian and State union. He was a submissive Christian and accepted doctrines, forced Mulsim nation to give religious freedom to Christians in their lands. He demanded those in power not rob blind the poor. In fact, some believe he and hid kingdom are represented in the symbolic kingdom of Camelot.
Well, in his day, Priest were often charging huge amounts of money to recieve blessings, education, and the like...he out lawed that. He foreced Nuns to not sleep around and go figure, he would well with 1500s' reformation of Martin Luther. He was a student of the Word of GOd...if ever, there was a Christian king similar to King David, it was he.
We've been discussing the Grassley 6 and the implications of what is happening as of late in regards to their apparent appearance of wrong doing in their finances. I made some strong statements but in the process, I had to ask, what would have Charlamagne had done in Grassley's place.
Well, I have to admit my research on this king is limited to what can be found. I made this connection, he would have not given the Grassley 6 as much freedom to say "no" to the enquiry into their finances. He would have held them accountable. If he found wrong doing each would face considerable penalties. More importantly, he would never allow some of their teachings to continue.
truly we live in an age when it is said, that church and state ought to be seperated...ok...oh! In ancient times, this was not the case. Are we better off with having the two seperated? Yes! Because I can only find in history one time when a king was powerful enough to keep the church from using him and yet humble enough to accept correction and maintain morality as best as he could. Government can not be trusted to lead the church - (example: the Church of England - lets not open this up! I must confess I like this church but see their weakness). However, in the same way, the church can not be trusted to rule a nation, because with absolute power Satan will currupt.
So, I like a more balance of shared power, civil authoritiest govern over law making, the people daily needs, defence, enforcement of the laws. The church governs over the daily spiritual needs of people and equally keeps the governement accountable. Scritpure tells us that Government has been given a sword by authority of GOD to enflict judgement.
I am not sure how to explain this better than I have...but, regardless of who Charlamagne is and I am sure the Catholic church sees him in a rose coloured picture of seeing him the best they can. Yet, let us realize, state has a role to play in ensuring churches remain humble with finances and accountability is the rule of the day.
Just a babbling thought.
Pastor I disagree with you. I appreciate you took the time to write two lengthy treatises to defend your position. I will address after Christmas. Just know this, I am on board with the overemphasis of wealth by the current Word of Faith promoters. I am not on board with all the other examples you pose and I will address them after Christmas.
If the time is too long simply send me a reminder by posting, commemts go to my inbox.
Be bless in this Christmas season and the year to come for Christ came to Deliver all people from the darkness of Satan's age and to transfer them into the Kingdom of the Father's dear Son.