Just a point - Muslims pray to the god of Abraham and Isaac as well. Allah is the same God that the Christians and Jews pray to each day. Christianity and Islam are both Judaic derivatives.
Certainly - pagans, buddhists, taoists and hindis all pray to a different god though. However, George W probably doesn't consider anything beyond the big three a religion. He probably thinks of them as cultists do they don't count.
SOOO....in GW Bush's defense. In his little demented world where he frames everything with rose colored glasses, we all do pray to the same god. In his mind he is right, then again, in his mind we are also winning in IRaq....
Actually they pray to the god of Abraham and Ishmael. The Quran or Hadith (I am uncertain which) has replaced the Biblical child of promise of Judaism and Christianity - Isaac - with Ishmael. It is not the same God.
If you read media other than the liberal MSM and Moveon.org you would know that we are winning in Iraq. If the MSM of today were reporting on D-Day of WWII they would have been reporting how miserable a failure the invasion was due to the huge amount of American casualties and carnage.
You just have to look at things in perspective. Are we losing because Americans are dieing or are we winning because even Iraqi Sunni tribal Sheiks (formerly anti-American) are joining American troops because al Qaeda has become even to insidious to them.
The delusion is in the minds of the liberals that think that pulling out of Iraq would solve problem when in fact it would create greater problems.
I have never once advanced the notion that we should pull out of Iraq. In fact, I think that its a case of "You break it, you buy it." We should stay there until we are asked to leave by their government. If that takes 10 years, 20 years or 50 years - we are stuck with the responsibility.
HOWEVER...to say we are "winning" is certainly a simplified view of the situation. Yes, we are suppressing the outbreaks of violence more effectively but we have not changed the nationalistic or the religious views of those causing the violence.
If the deaths in Iraq were not being caused by a massive case of military blundering by the Commander in Chief - then I would see them as noble sacrifices not wastes of American life.
With WWII and D-Day, we had an appropriate ground force in place. We had a coalition of allies (that had actual military strength). We were at war with a power that had declared war on us, we did not randomly invade them. Hell, we wouldn't have even declared war on Germany if Hitler hadn't declared it on us. It had nothing to do with nobility or an attempt to stop genocide - they declared war on us and we responded (exceeding late, might I add). Most of the self-declared "Greatest Generation" didn't give one thought to the jews that they KNEW were dying in Europe. Ugh...there is so much I could say to people that compare WWII and Iraq but it would take days to write. Iraq and WWII were started for two separate reason and neither of them were started to save people in other nations.
You still miss the point about the casualties. That is what the Left is hammering on. We are at war. Whatever the reason proferred - valid or not - Iraq holds a strategic key to the life blood of the West oil. Saddam Hussein whether he paid al Qaeda or not, DID support other terrorist organizations monetarily that did strike American military (for example Hezbollah in Lebannon or Hamas). Saddam was a psychotic ruling maniac and it will America well to have him gone even if the worst case scenario of three separate nations are formed out of a former Iraq. All those Arabic nations were arbitrarily formed by the West (except Iran) anyway. If pychos, Wahhabists, Muslim Brotherhood affiliates or Shia Twelver extremists wish to extort the West with oil, America has done right by Americans to be directly involved in the Middle East. This is so even though Appeasement minded Eurarabia wishes to be a dhimmit and lose their culture to Mohammedanism.
The fact is increasingly even Sunni's are seeing an American presence as preferrable to Baathists or al Qaeda. The Shi'ite did see Americans in a favorable light until Ahmadinejad's Iran began to use implanted Revolutionary Guard operatives to hate Americans. And even in that scenario the Shi'ites are divided between pro-Iran and pro-American.
The Kurds of the north have always been supportive of America.
NONE of these facts are distributed by the MSM, thus Americans are stuck have to decide if the MSM propaganda is correct or the President. The MSM has the upper hand because Americans do not like to hear about American casualties, they like to hear about enemy casualties. Hmm... I rarely see that reported when in fact American soldiers are obliterating al Qaeda with with Sunni help. Patraeus did not betray us, he has found a formula for rooting out foreign insurgents.
There one thing I have to agree with you though. President Bush made the right decision to go to Iraq; however civilian policy makers determined how to fight the war (rules of engagement and strategy) rather than military professionals. Man he screwed up! That is what is biting the butt of Conservatives in elections in 2006 and possibly 2008.
Just a point. I do not think that General Petraeus betryaed us. I know the man, personally. He was a classmate and friend of my father's. I think he got stuck with a shitty job (the cleanup of the Iraq debacle). However with his troop increases, the Surge and other plans of action that he has implemented - we are doing better there.
Oh believe me, I know about the West's creation of most of the Middle Eastern States. That was one of the reasons Saddam thought it was ok to go into Kuwait - he thought of it as a part of his nation that was wrongfully separated.
Now you have just impressed me! YOU KNOW GENERAL PETRAEUS! WoW!
What's he like? I have been reading he may be one of the best American military minds of the 21st century. Is he down to earth or all military stoicism.
You will have to send me a profile of your thoughts of General Petraeus.
The last time I saw him, he was a colonel. He is a really nice guy, very down to earth. You have to understand that I've known him since I was a baby and he was a 2nd Lieutentant, so I on't know how he would be to others.
Its so odd to me that people are impressed that I know Gen. Petraeus. I tend to forget that West Point Alumni are among the brightest and best of the world.
I come from a big military family. My Father and great uncle(mom's side) are both USMA Alums. Uncle Lee was an instructor at West Point (thats how mom met my dad). My Poppop (grampa on dad's side) retired a Colonel from the Army special Forces (Green Berets) after serving in WWII, Korea and two tours in VietNam (Nam was where he was special forces.)
Hell, my Dad used to date Margaret Patton (General Patton's granddaughter).
Gen. Petraeus is just a man to me like any other. Although he is very intelligent (just like my dad!)
I have never once advanced the notion that we should pull out of Iraq.
In fact, I think that its a case of "You break it, you buy it." We
should stay there until we are asked to leave by their government. If
that takes 10 years, 20 years or 50 years - we are stuck with the
responsibility.
Comments
Just a point - Muslims pray to the god of Abraham and Isaac as well. Allah is the same God that the Christians and Jews pray to each day. Christianity and Islam are both Judaic derivatives.
Certainly - pagans, buddhists, taoists and hindis all pray to a different god though. However, George W probably doesn't consider anything beyond the big three a religion. He probably thinks of them as cultists do they don't count.
SOOO....in GW Bush's defense. In his little demented world where he frames everything with rose colored glasses, we all do pray to the same god. In his mind he is right, then again, in his mind we are also winning in IRaq....
Actually they pray to the god of Abraham and Ishmael. The Quran or Hadith (I am uncertain which) has replaced the Biblical child of promise of Judaism and Christianity - Isaac - with Ishmael. It is not the same God.
If you read media other than the liberal MSM and Moveon.org you would know that we are winning in Iraq. If the MSM of today were reporting on D-Day of WWII they would have been reporting how miserable a failure the invasion was due to the huge amount of American casualties and carnage.
You just have to look at things in perspective. Are we losing because Americans are dieing or are we winning because even Iraqi Sunni tribal Sheiks (formerly anti-American) are joining American troops because al Qaeda has become even to insidious to them.
The delusion is in the minds of the liberals that think that pulling out of Iraq would solve problem when in fact it would create greater problems.
I have never once advanced the notion that we should pull out of Iraq. In fact, I think that its a case of "You break it, you buy it." We should stay there until we are asked to leave by their government. If that takes 10 years, 20 years or 50 years - we are stuck with the responsibility.
HOWEVER...to say we are "winning" is certainly a simplified view of the situation. Yes, we are suppressing the outbreaks of violence more effectively but we have not changed the nationalistic or the religious views of those causing the violence.
If the deaths in Iraq were not being caused by a massive case of military blundering by the Commander in Chief - then I would see them as noble sacrifices not wastes of American life.
With WWII and D-Day, we had an appropriate ground force in place. We had a coalition of allies (that had actual military strength). We were at war with a power that had declared war on us, we did not randomly invade them. Hell, we wouldn't have even declared war on Germany if Hitler hadn't declared it on us. It had nothing to do with nobility or an attempt to stop genocide - they declared war on us and we responded (exceeding late, might I add). Most of the self-declared "Greatest Generation" didn't give one thought to the jews that they KNEW were dying in Europe. Ugh...there is so much I could say to people that compare WWII and Iraq but it would take days to write. Iraq and WWII were started for two separate reason and neither of them were started to save people in other nations.
You still miss the point about the casualties. That is what the Left is hammering on. We are at war. Whatever the reason proferred - valid or not - Iraq holds a strategic key to the life blood of the West oil. Saddam Hussein whether he paid al Qaeda or not, DID support other terrorist organizations monetarily that did strike American military (for example Hezbollah in Lebannon or Hamas). Saddam was a psychotic ruling maniac and it will America well to have him gone even if the worst case scenario of three separate nations are formed out of a former Iraq. All those Arabic nations were arbitrarily formed by the West (except Iran) anyway. If pychos, Wahhabists, Muslim Brotherhood affiliates or Shia Twelver extremists wish to extort the West with oil, America has done right by Americans to be directly involved in the Middle East. This is so even though Appeasement minded Eurarabia wishes to be a dhimmit and lose their culture to Mohammedanism.
The fact is increasingly even Sunni's are seeing an American presence as preferrable to Baathists or al Qaeda. The Shi'ite did see Americans in a favorable light until Ahmadinejad's Iran began to use implanted Revolutionary Guard operatives to hate Americans. And even in that scenario the Shi'ites are divided between pro-Iran and pro-American.
The Kurds of the north have always been supportive of America.
NONE of these facts are distributed by the MSM, thus Americans are stuck have to decide if the MSM propaganda is correct or the President. The MSM has the upper hand because Americans do not like to hear about American casualties, they like to hear about enemy casualties. Hmm... I rarely see that reported when in fact American soldiers are obliterating al Qaeda with with Sunni help. Patraeus did not betray us, he has found a formula for rooting out foreign insurgents.
There one thing I have to agree with you though. President Bush made the right decision to go to Iraq; however civilian policy makers determined how to fight the war (rules of engagement and strategy) rather than military professionals. Man he screwed up! That is what is biting the butt of Conservatives in elections in 2006 and possibly 2008.
Just a point. I do not think that General Petraeus betryaed us. I know the man, personally. He was a classmate and friend of my father's. I think he got stuck with a shitty job (the cleanup of the Iraq debacle). However with his troop increases, the Surge and other plans of action that he has implemented - we are doing better there.
Oh believe me, I know about the West's creation of most of the Middle Eastern States. That was one of the reasons Saddam thought it was ok to go into Kuwait - he thought of it as a part of his nation that was wrongfully separated.
Now you have just impressed me! YOU KNOW GENERAL PETRAEUS! WoW!
What's he like? I have been reading he may be one of the best American military minds of the 21st century. Is he down to earth or all military stoicism.
You will have to send me a profile of your thoughts of General Petraeus.
The last time I saw him, he was a colonel. He is a really nice guy, very down to earth. You have to understand that I've known him since I was a baby and he was a 2nd Lieutentant, so I on't know how he would be to others.
Its so odd to me that people are impressed that I know Gen. Petraeus. I tend to forget that West Point Alumni are among the brightest and best of the world.
I come from a big military family. My Father and great uncle(mom's side) are both USMA Alums. Uncle Lee was an instructor at West Point (thats how mom met my dad). My Poppop (grampa on dad's side) retired a Colonel from the Army special Forces (Green Berets) after serving in WWII, Korea and two tours in VietNam (Nam was where he was special forces.)
Hell, my Dad used to date Margaret Patton (General Patton's granddaughter).
Gen. Petraeus is just a man to me like any other. Although he is very intelligent (just like my dad!)
This is a point we agree on.